Catholic School, Muslim services

I do not think that you will find any chapels in Muslim Schools

Is that right?

A Catholic School offering Muslim students the facility to practice their faith?

A Catholic School providing a Prayer Room for Muslims, is that so very wrong?

Deacon Tony Flavin provides a Prayer Room at his school, (not sure which one), and is pleased that young Muslim males and females attend prayers there.

Well, for the record, in a secular educational situation, I have provided Prayer Rooms for Muslims most willingly.

But, I do not think it right that a Catholic School or College should do so.

If you allow Muslims a space, would you also do the same for Sikhs, Seventh Day Adventists, Hari Krishna followers, Wicca Groups, Scientologists, Mormons and so on?

I suspect, depressingly, that most Catholic Schools would fall in line with any requests from such faiths. But then, I have a very low opinion of most Catholic Schools.

We do have one or two (but only one or two) flagship Schools where the essence of clear doctrinal teaching and ethos is promoted. Cardinal Vaughan is one; the London Oratory is, I suspect, another.

There may be a few more. Count the fingers on one hand; that is the state that we are in.

Appalling.

It would be interesting to have your views on the subject; am I being a racist right winger?

I hope not.

Please vote according to your view in the sidebar on the right.

Where do you stand?

I mean, do you regard visits to Hindu temples, Muslim mosques and so on, an acceptable part of Catholic school life or, even, of Catholic parish life?

Would you, if drawn into such a group, allow your forehead to be daubed with a red spot or adopt the kneeling position as used by the particular faith you are visiting or participate in any other way?

Do you believe that Catholic convents and other Catholic groups should participate in retreat or training programmes that involve elements of Buddhism, Taoism or any other pagan belief?

This is a yes or no moment - there is no "but only if" category; I'm just interested in obtaining the views of other Catholics rather than plodding on in my own little orthodox Catholic bubble.

Please look at the options in my sidebar and vote accordingly - xie xie!

Syncretism - is it a sin?

It appears as if, in modern Church parlance, syncretism is a word used to define a meeting with those of other faiths; Christian or Heathen or Pagan.

Raijin - Japanese god of thunder - not for  Year 3s

I would be open to the view that some good could be the fruit of such meetings but only on the proviso that they were conducted formally with leaders of the faith rather than the faithful and on neutral ground.

Of course, the objective (our objective) must be to spread the light of Christ among those upon whom it has never shone.
Presumably, we would do this in a polite manner, making certain points and teaching through discourse and example.

I think that, if indeed, that is syncretism, then it should be regarded as a good and wholesome thing that Our Lord would approve of.

But I am afraid that this word is being used too loosely and that it has become the 'in word' for ecumenical meetings and shindigs.

Taking class four to a synagogue could have some merit if the visit was enshrined within the RE syllabus. Possibly.

Shunting secondary school students to a mosque would be of dubious benefit; as would a visit to a Hindu Temple.
Why? Because there is a  danger of being drawn into pagan or heathen practices.

 Clapping hands before a Shinto shrine is a form of worship encouraged by one's hosts in Japan and it is hard to back out of that potentially volatile situation. I have visited the country often and have found that the best way to cope is to politely refuse and, instead, make a sign of the cross.
That act is respected by my Japanese hosts and it does not cause offence.
To do the same thing in a mosque would, in all probability, cause offence.

At a Hindu Temple it would be natural for visitors to receive the red spot on the forehead, bindi as it is called.

Bindi has a spiritual and social function, here is how its spiritual function is described:

".....I'll start with the Spiritual purpose as it is the most important one of them all. As per Hinduism the purpose of life is to find your true self, to realize the Infinite Reality. Every morning one takes a bath and sits in prayer, (not to say prayers like a parrot), to seek for the absolute truth through every ritual and prayer. However, one has to make a living and cannot sit in prayer the whole day. Thus, as one leaves the prayer room one is expected to put some mark on one's forehead (between the eyebrows - which is the seat of memory) to remind one during the day and through all activities of the 'purpose of life'. As we cannot see the mark on our own foreheads when we see it on another we recall the purpose of our life. The idea is to remember that all actions in the external world are dedicated towards the achievement of this supreme goal of self realization. The purpose is to recall the purpose, reflect and contemplate upon Reality in and through all activities throughout the day".

That's a definite "no go area" as far as we are concerned.

Now Patricius has informed me that I should have consulted Nostra Aetate from the Vatican Archives, on the subject of inter faith dialogue.
I have now done so and find nothing that contradicts anything that I have written so far.

Nostra Aetate is aimed at those wishing to have dialogue with non Christian religions; dialogue aimed at creating a level of understanding.
It says nothing of organising parish jamborees or school groups where the object of the exercise would seem to be extremely dubious at best.

And, I still maintain that to participate in non Christian ceremonies (and non Catholic ones) falls under the category of relativism and a few other isms as well.

It is a mortal sin to take part or appear to take part in prayer services or rituals that are not dedicated to the one true God.

Or, has someone moved the goal posts?

Park Place or Dark Place?

I seem to have become immersed in a welter of posts concerning non Christian activities within the borders of the Catholic Faith.

In truth, I have been surprised and shocked to find all these goings on going on.

My Catholic life, for the past 23 years or so, has been largely one of a Catholic in exile, awaiting the return of.......the King the Latin Mass. Romantic notion eh? But true.

Blogging has brought me out of my shell and, combined with the renewed life that is flowing out from Rome, I have found that I am much more aware of the good things taking place within the Church and certainly much more aware of the very bad things that are also taking place.

This is Park Place. What is going on? Answers on a postcard please

There is an order of nuns in sleepy, rural Hampshire, who operate their convent as a retreat and conference centre. Bully for them. I'm all for that sort of thing.

Except that.......they welcome in Buddhists, Taoists and all sorts of other 'ists' I should imagine (except Fascists, they would not stand for those would they?).

And would they, I wonder, welcome Occultists with open arms to enjoy (quote):
"The tranquil beauty of Park Place"?

After all, if you state that you welcome all, as they say they do ("we welcome approaches from organizations who wish to hold a retreat or spiritual course at Park Place") then, presumably, you must accept all.

The question is: Should this be an acceptable practice in an establishment that exists in accord with the teachings of Jesus Christ?

Are not Taoism and Buddhism faiths that, in many aspects, are in direct contradiction to the one true Faith?

The nuns are a Franciscan order from South India (I still can't get my head around that one) and, of course, Park Place happens to be in the Diocese of Bishop Philip Egan, Portsmouth.

Now I wish Bishop Philip nothing other than God's good graces in his episcopal role, it is just coincidence that these activities keep cropping up in his diocese, or is it?

As a commentator has said, Portsmouth has been a hotbed of nutty Catholic shenanigans for a long time now and it's asking a lot for + Egan to turn things around overnight.

And, to prove that I am not picking on him, here is some news regarding a similar operation to Park Place (wouldn't a Catholic saint's name be good instead of something that sounds as if its part of a Barratt Homes development?).

This one is in Northampton Diocese and the place is Turvey Abbey run by a community of Benedictine nuns.
At least they have got a good name to their operation - the Priory of Our Lady Queen of Peace but, sadly, they appear to be just as touchy feely as their Hampshire counterparts.

These nuns organise all sorts of events including, can you believe:-

Meister Eckhart: Inner Silence and Awakening. A contemplative inter-faith (Christian-Buddhist) weekend meditating with Eckhart’s texts through the medium of Benedictine Lectio Divina.  Led by George Wilson and a Turvey Benedictine nun. Cost: £130 per person, payable on booking. (Contact: Sr Lucy)

Bloomin' 'eck, as they say north of Mill Hill, why can't Catholic organisations, convents and monasteries, just offer good Catholic contemplative studies and leave the yoga and the yogis well alone.

And as Bishop Doyle only has a few engagements up to 9th November (the rest of the month is blank), perhaps his lordship would like to drop in on these topsy Turvey nuns and see what they are playing at.

Picture from Park Place website:  www.parkplacecentre.org.uk

Turvey Abbey site: www.turveyabbey.org.uk

My thanks to my two blogging friends who pointed me in the direction of these two establishments.

A reply from the Bishop...except that, it's not

It all started with a polite request from me to Bishop Philip Egan of Portsmouth.

I asked why one of his parishes was organising a visit to a Hindu Temple; it seemed a pretty pointless exercise to me and ecumaniacal initiatives such as this never seem to have a reciprocation aspect to them.
We tend to go forth and join rather than to go forth and teach.

Now this is where it gets boring (yawn) it's a bit anecdotal so please bear with me.
I received a nice reply from the Bishop suggesting that I take the matter up with my Parish Priest - alack!
 I am a pikey Catholic, I have no parish, no place to lay my head or kneel in prayer except several 'adopted' churches where the PP is a kind and forbearing person.

Mantra for customer satisfaction -
 "Delegation is good but it must be followed through"

In haste I responded with an apology for giving the impression that I was a parishioner of St James's Church, Reading.

And then.......the response comes back.....except that, whilst it purports to come from the Bishop it obviously comes from one of his priests charged with admin duties filed under "Nuisance enquiries from awkward b*****s" (that stands for bloggers, by the way).

You see, as any fule kno, as Molesworth would say, you never, ever, send an email that has been forwarded or cc'd.

Because the chances are that there will be one or two earlier emails on the tab that may carry info that you would not wish the final recipient to see.

Now, my reply carried nothing nasty as such but it had not, I believe, been sent by the Bishop because there was a forward note from the Bish's PA stating: "Father, for you"

And the reply itself was.....a bit (I'm trying to be charitable) -  pompous and twittish, and I am sure that the Bishop would never have made such remarks.

Here is the response, verbatim, you may judge for yourselves (my comments in red):

Dear Robert (Um, just plain Richard would do, it is my name after all)

The nature of interreligious dialogue and proclamation is of course a complex one. (Well, it certainly sounds it) You might do well to look at the article by Mgr. Billy Steele on the Diocese of Leeds website (It really gets up my nose when people say things like "You have to understand" or "You might do well" and, anyway, I would never read anything from a Catholic priest with the Christian name 'Billy').

Some Christians veer towards syncretism, others to fundamentalism (err....there is a whole world between those two words and just because I may object to syncretism it doesn't make me a fundamentalist) and the rejection of any possible ‘conversation.’ (But is a visit to a Hindu temple a 'conversation'? What is the actual purpose of such a visit?)

The Catholic position is directed by recent Church teaching (Such as?). 
In this particular case, I still think it would be best to discuss the precise nature of the proposed visit with the Parish Priest (but, as I have stated before, I am not a member of this bleeping parish!) before making your judgment.(Ah...judgements are wrong, that's the innuendo here).

With prayers and best wishes

In Corde Iesu

+ Philip

What an awful, ignorant letter. I am confident that Bishop Philip did not write it, what do you think?

If I was the Bishop I'd give whoever it was that wrote it, a week's course on customer service and relationships at Marks and Spencer.

A good teaching aid for school chaplains

Recommended as essential viewing before arranging a visit to your local mosque.

In this short film clip the origins of Islam are explored and the basic aims according to the Koran are listed giving school pupils a clear understanding of what it means to call yourself a Muslim.

Every RE class should be given the advantage of watching this highly educational video.......