It's All Subjective

If I'm going to devote any time to bashing moronic opinions, I might as well mine the fertile fields of IMDB's Film General board. I spend way too much time prowling that board, and while there's much interesting discussion that happens there, too much time is devoted to asinine off-topic sniping. Some of these threads and flames are entertaining - ask any veteran about the Mounty-Slurry Feud - but most are just annoying, petty childish bickering. However, such childish vendettas are nowhere near the that results when board members attempt to debate issues of art and philosophy...

Today there were several trollish threads of users sniping incessantly at each other, per usual. One thread, involving a user named "McFlyin" complaining about how he gets no respect for liking Transformers 2, degenerated into a lengthy slugging matching about Film General's pet topic: subjectivity in art.

Some brief excerpts to give you an idea of what we're talking about here:

Matt Velvet (aka Trolling Streetcar):

There's a point where taste stops being subjective and becomes fact. Roger Ebert wrote a great article about this.

Watchmen being better than The Love Guru is not an opinion. It is a fact. Watchmen took much more effort to make, it is much more intelligent and complex, and it is much more entertaining. Thus, it is a better film. Fact.

...

If you think Step Brothers and Transformers 2 are better than The Godfather, you are wrong. That's all there is to it. You are wrong

.

A-ha, but Independent Thought Alarm (among others) takes issue:

Pull your head out of your ass. Effort and complexity do not make better films. Intelligence and entertainment level are purely subjective. If he thinks Step Brothers and Transformers 2 are better than The Godfather ... then they are better films to him and that's all there is to it. You can still consider The Godfather better, and that opinion is equally valid. Stop being such an arrogant jerk and let him have his own taste. I agree with s-bui, that is nothing but elitism. You have no better taste than McFlyin, just different taste. Now get over it.

You see? That settles it. It's all subjective.

Seriously, though, this seems to be an issue that FG just can't keep away from. A recent article by Roger Ebert also addressed this issue, in response to bitching from Transformers 2 fans (my, they're a surly bunch!) about his acid-laden review of the film. To wit,

We should respect differing opinions up to certain point, and then it's time for the wise to blow the whistle. Sir, not only do I differ with what you say, but I would certainly not fight to the death for your right to say it. Not me. You have to pick your fights.

You tell 'em, Rog!

Though FG seems to enjoy kicking this issue around more than most, it's certainly an argument I've heard many other places, both online and in real life. Where does the line between fact and opinion end? (A corollary, similarly self-defeating argument is: What is art?) Is it right to dismiss someone who likes, say, Billy Jack or Terminator Salvation as a blithering idiot? Is his taste worse than me, who considers Lawrence of Arabia and The Godfather Part II as some of his favorite films? Here's my two cents, so hopefully I'll never have to opine on this idiotically self-defeating argument ever again:

The whole argument is really self-defeating, and, not to be ironic, subjective. Everyone has their own comfort zone, their own point up to which we can accept the other guy's point-of-view as valid, just as personally-defined as our taste in movies. I may accept that many people think The Reader is a brilliant masterpiece while I think it is absolute crap, for instance. It's a movie that has artistic merits that can be argued, even if they elude me. Is it fair, though, to say that something like 300, which shows virtually no skill other than replecating the page of a comic book, is completely devoid of merit? In my opinion, yes. Regardless of objective technical worth, not all films are equal; Silent Night Deadly Night 2 is not "objectively" the same as Citizen Kane, and for me it's foolish to try, for the sake of some esoteric, up-own-arsed pseudo-philosphical argument that three people on the Internet will ever read, to argue otherwise.

As an actual, real-life young man between the ages of 18 and 25, I enjoy a good dumb action movie on occasion, like Die Hard or Speed, but I would never argue they are cinematic masterpieces. Reasonable people can disagree on films, and I might not even mind a coherent, well-reasoned argument on why The Dark Knight is an all-time masterpiece. But the dope teenager who likes Spider-Man 3 and whose opinion is limited "omg that movie rawx", I do not accept as having the same validity as mine. You may think that douche-ish; I would tell you to get a fucking clue and to get your swollen head out of your ass.

To reiterate an obvious point: Objective fact and quality are virtually non-existant in human society, and this should be an obvious point to every sentient being. However, in this case - arguing that there is no difference in quality at all between two films, even if it's Leprechaun in the Hood versus The Godfather - it seems to be taking an argument to an extreme and rendering it completely pointless. It is a pointless exercise in circular logic to argue otherwise.

I guess a summary of my view is, You're entitled to your opinion but I don't have to respect it. I may be willing to listen to a defense of Transformers but so far as I'm concerned that's just so much wasted effort. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. If that makes me a snob, so be it - I am what I am and that's all that I am.

In any case, isn't it subjective whether or not something else is subjective? From my point-of-view an issue may be subjective, but from someone else's it may be concrete fact. Ergo, post-modernism, where nothing actual exists actually - in my personal opinion/perception of course. Oh my God, I've become one of them...

Ultimately, having endless arguments on the issue of subjectivity and opinion vs. fact is futile and pathetic; the same arguments are trotted out ad nauseum without end. It would be nice if FG could stop boring the world and twisting brains in knots, but it ain't likely to happen in this lifetime.

Rant over. I'll try and have a new review up for you tomorrow.